Are you your brothers' and sisters' keeper?
Last spring I started asking various folks about God's question to Cain about the whereabouts of the slain Abel in the Genesis poem and Cain's question in response: "Am I my brother’s keeper?"
8 Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?”Genesis 4:8-10 (NASB)
Recall that God doesn't answer Cain.
So I've asked folks (maybe a couple dozen or so): If God had answered Cain, would his answer been
Recall that God doesn't answer Cain.
So I've asked folks (maybe a couple dozen or so): If God had answered Cain, would his answer been
- "Yes, you are" or,
- "No you aren't" or,
- "Well, its complicated"?
Interestingly, for the most part dems and liberals pretty much answer "Well, 'yes' --- duh!"
I'd always thought/assumed everyone's answer would be "He's have answered 'Yes.'"
But I was wrong. I have found that the few conservatives who answer "yes" usually hesitate for awhile before answering. (A couple haven't hesitated in the least.
Most end up either with "well it's complicated" or by avoiding an answer altogether.
One conservative internet friend went so far as to argue that God was using the term "keeper" in the sense of animal husbandry so that is was a trick question!
(He found that argument through a google search and found a site that argued that The argument is based on the line a few passages before that "Abel was a keeper of flocks..." I checked an interlinear Hebrew translation, however, and found that the two passages use two different words which are translated into English as "keeper.")
I'd always thought/assumed everyone's answer would be "He's have answered 'Yes.'"
But I was wrong. I have found that the few conservatives who answer "yes" usually hesitate for awhile before answering. (A couple haven't hesitated in the least.
Most end up either with "well it's complicated" or by avoiding an answer altogether.
One conservative internet friend went so far as to argue that God was using the term "keeper" in the sense of animal husbandry so that is was a trick question!
(He found that argument through a google search and found a site that argued that The argument is based on the line a few passages before that "Abel was a keeper of flocks..." I checked an interlinear Hebrew translation, however, and found that the two passages use two different words which are translated into English as "keeper.")
So I was intrigued by this little tidbit from President Obama speech to the UAW.
I have a number of concerns about President Obama's values and his presidential record, but I sure liked his clear pronouncement of being our brothers' and sisters' keepers.
Not to nitpick, but heck it's the first time I've ever been semi-quoted in a blog.
ReplyDeleteNot that it matters to my point, but since you made a point of saying it: I didn't "find" that argument through a google search. I did use an article YOU may have found through a google search, but as I said in the Facebook exchange the perspective was familiar to me long before google came along.
Also, God didn't use the word "keeper", Cain did. And I didn't say it was a trick question, I said it was a rhetorical question.
I'll see your DIY hebrew and raise you one Prince of Preachers and one expert analysis of the passage:: "Cain displayed a shameful tone of presumptuous impudence in his insulting reply to the Lord God. If it had not been on record in the page of inspiration, we might almost have doubted whether a man could speak so impudently when actually conscious that God himself was addressing him. Men blaspheme often in a most terrible fashion, but it is usually because they forget God, and ignore his presence; but Cain was conscious that God was speaking to him. He heard him say, “Where is your brother Abel?” and yet he dared, with the coldest impertinence, to reply to God, “I don’t know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” As much as to say— “Do you think that I have to keep watch over him as he watches over his sheep? Am I also a shepherd as he was, and am I to take as much care of him as he did of a crippled lamb?” "
http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/1399.htm
"[the word keeper in Gen 4:9].. "is more akin to "overseer" or "master," as in "keeping" sheep (1 Samuel 17:20, 22); royal wardrobes (2 Kings 22:14); the king's forest (Nehemiah 2:3, 3:29); gates (1 Chronicles 9:19); vineyards (Song of Solomon 1:6); and the temple threshold (Jeremiah 52:24) "
W. O. Klopfenstein, Keeper, Keepers, III Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, 781 (Merrill C. Tenney et al. eds., 1976).
I have repeatedly, and at length, made it clear that I believe in and carry out my duty to my brother as a believer in Christ.
And just in case you missed it the first time, this is what I said the first time we talked about what I believe my responsibilities are to my brother and why I think using Cains example weakens your case:
(ME in reply to you): But consider this. The question you are so intent on "answering" is the insolent, guilt-deflecting, question of a man who murdered his brother, one that when God himself had the opportunity to answer, did not. I'm not at all sure what there is to be gained from making more out of Cain's question than that. Especially since we don't NEED to make more of it to arrive at the conclusion that God requires compassion and assistance to our brothers of us. It's not exactly the only passage in scripture touching on the subject of interpersonal relationships.
I guess what I'm saying is, you've got plenty of other scripture, far more directly worded, that places a responsibility on each of us to love and assist those around us who need it.
.....
All I am saying is that I disagree with the use of THIS specific scripture passage to say what you are saying about interpersonal relationships and duties, but that there are plenty of other scriptures that inform us well and that I further believe in and practice compassion and assistance to my fellow man as a believer in Christ."
Hope that clarifies things
>>I didn't "find" that argument through a google search. I did use an article YOU may have found through a google search, but as I said in the Facebook exchange the perspective was familiar to me long before google came along.
ReplyDeleteWell, I found that article by cutting a fairly long quote from your post and pasting it into google - with quotes.
So you must have an amazing memory...
>>Also, God didn't use the word "keeper", Cain did. And I didn't say it was a trick question, I said it was a rhetorical question.
LOL
Now, what was that "Not to nitpick..." business?
It's maybe kind of funny - you have to dig into obscure Biblical exegesis to avoid the plain meaning of the text....